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Absolutes, Morality, and Society

If morality is not absolute, then it is irrelevant. Let me explain.

Back before European explorers first landed in South America, the Aztecs had a thriving civilization. They had their own culture; they had their own language; they had a style of art and a structured civilization. They had a complicated mythology. Archeologists are still finding out more and more about them. They also, of course, practiced human sacrifice, and apparently on a large scale.

Then there were the Spanish. Another thriving civilization. Of course we all know what happened; put them together, start the invasion, and only the Spanish came out on top. It didn't help that the Aztecs had never been exposed to smallpox and the like. Net loss: One Aztec empire.

Don't worry, I'm not really here to discuss history; in fact, I don't really know much more about the whole incident than what I got from casual reading. I'm actually more interested in the clash of morality here. On one side, we have a group of people who sincerely believes that if they don't participate in rituals that involve human sacrifice, the gods will withdraw their favor and everyone will die (or, less apocalyptically, their society will destabilize and chaos will descend). On the other side, we have a group of people with an equally sincere belief in their own superiority and their own right to take the land they wanted. Both sides essentially believed they were doing the right thing when they took human lives.

Looking back on it, I doubt that anyone would want to revive either human sacrifice or the kind of destructive conquest that leaves entire nations scattered or dead. But there are lots of people who would say, "Well, that was right for them, back then. They believed they were doing the right thing; and it's really the intent that counts. For them, it was the right thing to do."

So here we have the idea that society, and society alone, determines what is right and wrong.

But that's faulty reasoning. First of all, to give society the responsibility for determining morality, you have arbitrarily declared that societies are infallible, and that when a society and an individual within it differ, the individual must be in the wrong. Looking back into my own country's history--both my birth country and my adopted country (Germany and the USA, respectively), I can see an awful lot of evil that was socially accepted, and a lot of individuals who disagreed. One particularly striking example is the way the US justified slavery during the time when it was legal; they actually had people preaching sermons about how it was better for black people to be slaves because they would be happier, because they were incapable of making their own decisions or taking care of themselves. Slavery was evil then, and is evil now. That we didn't acknowledge it back then doesn't make it any less true now.

But you might still say that good and evil are defined by society; in 1800, America defined slavery as "right", and in 2010 we define it as "wrong". Fine. So which society is correct? 1800s America or 2010 America? If your answer is "both", that evil changes depending on your perspective, then there's no need for a concept of "evil" at all; the term "evil" can be completely replaced by the phrase "socially unacceptable", or anyway a special case of the term that involves just the society's mores (rather than simple customs which do not arouse moral judgment from most people--for example, it is not common to keep more than five cats in the same house, but most people in our society would not judge it as wrong to keep six).

But if "evil" is the same thing as "socially unacceptable", then you can't argue about morality; you can never say something is right or wrong categorically; you can only say, "I do not prefer this" or "My society does not prefer this."

The only way for good or evil to have meaning at all is for them to have a meaning that is not determined by society. For this independent meaning to exist, Good and Evil have to exist as separate entities, outside the minds of people. Their being immaterial concepts does not preclude their being real; numbers are concepts with independent reality, for example, and so are ideas like sequence, cause-and-effect, and logic in general. (If logic had no independent reality, we wouldn't be able to reliably apply it to science.)

Now, if you want to say that good and evil have no meaning independent of sentient minds, then you can say that; but you should step out of the moral debate entirely, because with that premise, morality has no meaning. The only thing left of it is, "What can I do that will benefit me most without causing society to retaliate against me?" And that's a pretty poor sort of moral code to live by.

By the way: Who would I side with in the case of the Aztecs? Neither. As is the case in much of history, both sides were terribly wrong, and both sides suffered for it.

Comments

I subscribe to no moral code, yet I'm generally regarded as a good man because I treat people much better than necessary — even people for whom I have no use whatsoever. It's my nature to do so. Thus, my existence disproves the theory that a person who rejects morality will necessarily behave badly.
Sure. A person can be regarded very highly even without a standard of morality other than society. That is mostly a matter of thinking ahead and considering others' likely responses to one's actions. But without absolutes, the fact that someone can act in a very socially acceptable fashion without a belief in absolute morality still doesn't give the terms "good" or "evil" any meaning beyond what society prefers.

(Anonymous)

Chaoticidealism

I believe I can add to your logic here. By saying that there are no absolutes it seems to me that you just made an absolute. What you're describing is called moral relativism. There are those who say everything is relative. If this is true then even relativism is relative. We're back to having absolutes.

This is what I believe
1. There are absolutes
2. All human beings have biases, predjudices, and wrong information which can cloud our thought processes including us autistics.
3. I believe in order to truly get to these absolutes we as human beings have to uncloud our minds from these biases, predjudices, and wrong information.
4. I do not believe we can always get to number 3.
5. I believe we as human beings will have to continously refine our thought processes. We can get closer to infinity but we can never arrive at infinity. We as human beings will always be learning and we will always keep striving for this elusive perfection.

6. I believe this whole process is the answer. I call this process of struggle, learning, rooting out biases, and bettering ourselves Dynamic Honesty.

(Anonymous)

NTs will always use consensus morality. We can't even if we try.
And yet autistic people commit crimes at lower rates than NTs...

(I do not, however, think that this has anything to do with innate morality; just that we are more likely to be home reading than out causing trouble.)

hi

hiu That is becuase autistic love to learn information and we have our rules in which we live by. We autistics as society like rules and follow thr rules that society has put in place for all of us! The nt's do not live like we do and could never live like we do That coalch do not have the mind's like we do!

(Anonymous)

Wow. I'm surprised to see this comment. Not all NTs will use consensus morality. We are individuals and our beliefs cover the whole spectrum of attitudes on this subject. It is pretty close-minded to lump us all under one label. I personally believe that choices of right and wrong are almost always absolute. Society, in terms of group norms and laws, adjusts its overall consensus, but I would never change my morals or base my choices on what society judges to be right or wrong.
Yeah, I agree. After all, most of the people who worked the Underground Railroad were NTs. NTs are more likely to use consensus morality than those who are not members of the dominant culture, but that says nothing about individual NTs.
Your argument is correct, of course; but "care about the truth" is a *moral* decision, so the truth of what you've said will only appeal to people who already accept the authority of morality.

(Anonymous)

My question is whether we have any other means of assessing what's moral, apart from what is acceptable to a bigger or smaller group of our contemporaries. I'm sure it's not a good method -- but I feel there's no other method. Even if you recur to any external authority (the Bible or any other sacred book, for instance), you're able to do so only because there is some sort of consensus -- in some sort of human group -- that *that one* is the standard of morality.

We can desire to reach an absolute -- but we are stuck with "socially acceptable" -- the question is what group in the society defines the standards.

My two cents...

(Anonymous)

interesting

I, and I think most people, use "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" as the basis for morality. There are some areas where that doesn't apply, such as things like speed limits. In those cases we have established laws to give us limits or guidelines. There are some cultures where female genital mutilation is considered necessary and allowable, but their acceptance of it as a culture does not make it morally right.
No, we're not stuck. The entire field of ethics, which is a sub-field of philosophy, is dedicated to determining whether such absolutes exist and what they are. Theology touches on it, too, indirectly (most religions include moral codes). Philosophy generally attempts to use logic to come to conclusions.

(Anonymous)

absolute morality

Your posting conflates changing reasoning with changing facts. For the Aztecs, it was a fact that if they failed to propitiate the gods, the world would end. That was not a fact for the Spaniards. Similarly, the real argument around slavery was the fact that God's blessing of the institution meant that the descendants of Ham were better off enslaved.

It turns out that those facts ... were wrong. But they need to be factored into the moral reasoning regardless: we must judge (and we must judge, if we are not to abandon our own moral obligations) but we must take into account what was believed, and how persons understood their actions.

It's not morality that is in question: it is facts.

Re: absolute morality

I am not a Nt. I have high functioning autism or do i sound like i am off the spectum?

(Anonymous)

Morality is Absolute/Humans are Flawed

"The only way for good or evil to have meaning at all is for them to have a meaning that is not determined by society. For this independent meaning to exist, Good and Evil have to exist as separate entities, outside the minds of people."

Morality is independent of our perception of it. The reason why societies' perceive morality differently depending on their internal culture and mores is because human beings' perception is inherently biased. Our flawed perceptions doesn't make morality any less absolute, but it does mean no society can be an authority on morality. (And even within societies there will be disputes on whether an action is moral, even if social acceptable. There certainly was with slavery, and there probably was with human sacrifice as well.)

Stephanie
http://embracingchaos.stephanieallencrist.com/

(Anonymous)

"The only thing left of it is, "What can I do that will benefit me most without causing society to retaliate against me?" And that's a pretty poor sort of moral code to live by."

These two lines in your essay are the reason I believe that you are absolutely correct. Why else would "The Morals of the Prince" by Machiavelli last for hundreds and hundreds of years and live on the shelves of so many "great" men and women? I would say that if there is no god with no perfect law, there is no right and there is no wrong. There is only social acceptability. Being socially acceptable is the only qualification a human has to be in a pack, and then they can pass on their socially acceptable genes. That's my take on this whole issue anyway. :) I hope God's there for all of our sakes.