chaoticidealism ([info]chaoticidealism) wrote,
@ 2008-07-03 18:01:00
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Entry tags:medicine

"I'm the expert! Don't ask questions!"
Yesterday I went to the ob/gyn for a birth control prescription. I have really painful periods and I am tired of losing a day out of every month, especially when that can be seen as 'absenteeism' by a boss or a professor. The doctor told me that I had three options--birth control pills, Depo-Provera, or prescription-strength ibuprofen.

At this point, I made my mistake: I asked about side effects. Asked to see the documentation on the different types of medication. I am already heavy and I do not want to gain any more weight. And I have a history of depression and I sure as heck don't want to end up with another episode thanks to messing with hormones. But it was like he didn't want to discuss this with me. Wouldn't give me odds. Wouldn't give me the fact sheet--"You'll get that with your prescription". As though he just wanted me to choose "the shot, the pills, or the painkiller".

Then he left, assuming I didn't want any treatment at all. Why did he think I was in his office?

I finally had to track down a nurse and tell her that there had been a miscommunication. Quite out of my control, I was prescribed birth control pills and prescription-strength ibuprofen. (Luckily, I did some internet research and saw that this would have been the choice I'd made given actual information to make it with.)

It's not just doctors who act this way. Everyone, down to repairmen, seems to want to keep their "trade secrets" and want me to shut up and pay them, rather than ask what they're doing and why. It's like they're insulted if I ask for more information than they give me. I've gotten weird looks from a grocery store cashier when I asked whether one of their sales was meant to undersell a nearby store, which sold just above that price. (Maybe the cashier didn't know, in her defense.) The only place I don't get this is the library, where mentioning the Dewey Decimal number for a particular subject is considered normal enough not to draw comments.

Doctors ARE the worst offenders, though. "Take your pills and shut up" seems to be the biggest attitude. When I was in the mental ward I was the only one who asked for informational print-outs on the meds I got, and then asked why I was being given anti-addiction medication (for some reason) plus about a million other things I didn't need... I can see how this could be labeled non-compliance. I've already been labeled as having "minimal insight" for not agreeing with a psychiatrist (who saw me for one hour, total).

Do NTs not ask for information like this? Is it normal for an NT to not care about why her sink is leaking or why the grocery store puts milk and bread on opposite sides of the store? Are they over-awed by a medical degree? Is it normal for people to choose medical treatment with very little real information; or is it just that people don't think it's possible to understand medicine, or plumbing, or any number of "specialized" subjects? Is that why I'm getting treated so strangely?


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Unfortunately, it's everybody.
(Anonymous)
2008-07-04 12:24 am UTC (link)
Hate to tell you this, but NTs also have this problem with doctors. They can be royal, royal jerks. Especially ob/gyns. About half of them appear to have gone into that field because they so especially hate women - and I wish that I didn't seriously believe that.

And yes, there are people (NT and otherwise) who are over-awed by the degree and just do/take whatever the doctor tells them. Those people are idiots, frankly. Those of us (NT and otherwise) who ask questions and seek to understand why the doctor wants to do what he/she wants to do sometimes hit the barrier of the doctor's enormous ego. The only thing that I can tell you is, when you meet a doctor like that, just ditch them. Part of finding the right doctor is finding one who respectfully answers your questions. Somebody who treats you like a human being rather than a series of tubes and juices that should just take a pill. There are good ones out there - don't go to this moron again.

But no, it's not just you.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: Unfortunately, it's everybody.
[info]chaoticidealism
2008-07-04 03:04 am UTC (link)
Why I can't just drop the doc: Medicaid.

They pretty much say who you can go to, and who you can't, because there'll only be one doctor out of your "list" of "choices" who is actually taking on new patients.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]foundunicorn
2008-07-04 12:40 am UTC (link)
I have heard that in Japan the doctors don't tell the patient that they are dieing.

Edited at 2008-07-04 12:44 am UTC

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Physicans'exaggerated ideas of own importance.
[info]rnk35
2008-07-04 02:17 am UTC (link)
I had heard, back in the eighties of the last century, that now that we had more wimmin doctors, the arrogance and egotism would be chopped back, a bit.

Nope.

I got me a female physician, and she was just as much of a psychological bully as the worst dominant alpha male you can think of.

I think there's something about a medical education which messes up the social skills of those who, to speak frankly, aren't much better at the social stuff than we are.

And messes up and skews said social skills toward the bully side.

Oh, on the Nip Docs: There was a kerfuffle about that when Hirohito was dying. Some thought he should have been told, so as to have time to compose his death poem, like the Lakota death song.

The Japanese tendency to make everything seem nicey-nice, even in death, prevailed, howeve

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2008-07-04 03:00 am UTC (link)
Yup, NTs get treated like annoying gnats too, for the crime of asking a perfectly sensible question, like "what does this abbreviation mean?" in the doctor's referral. (I got hollered at for that, no screamed at, and changed primary physicians that afternoon--no way I was going back for more of the same treatment.)

I get the impression some docs take on way too many patients and pack each day's schedule so tight that they might as well be working on an assembly line in Detroit. Daring to expect a discussion, or even just a straightforward answer, messes up their schedule.

Maybe there's a way to request a longer appointment, to allow time for a real conversation? Maybe taking the last slot in the day's schedule is safer--no one in the waiting room, no harm done if you take an extra five minutes. If any of the front-office staff seem resourceful and interested, maybe get them to help figure out what to do to improve your chances of a satisfying appointment.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-07-04 04:07 am UTC (link)
I have been there too. I saw several OBGYN's before one would take me seriously and give me valid options for my severe pain every month. As tough as it is you may want to find a new OBGYN who takes the "entire" woman into account. Thinking about what you eat, vitamins, horomones and getting to the bottom as to why your pain is so severe. It is a long process but with the right doctor you will get more help.

I was on birth control and it really did make me more depressed. Ibuprofen never cut it for my pain. I hope you find some relief real soon. It is so hard to have so many days lost every month to pain.
marlabaltes.blogspot.com

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-07-04 09:40 am UTC (link)
I do think about a lot of the things you mention but I have difficulties in initiating speaking to people so most of the time I just think them. You do have the right to be informed of anything that might have a significant impact on you, which would include things like side effects. An understanding doctor should have realised that.
With regard to your question to the cashier I'm afraid I would have hated it if someone had asked me that when I was working in the supermarket. For a start I would have been stressed and flustered enough (I actually was rather pleased that I got sole checkout work rather than shelf stacking as there was less to distract and bother me). Honesty would have meant I should have replied with something along the lines of "I would say it's possible", but then I'd worry that a manager or supervisor would then grumble at me.
As for the bread and milk issue that's a marketing ploy. Bread and milk are things that people buy a lot and often just go to the shops simply to restock on those items. So if you have to go through more aisles they can then work on you (not you specifically you understand) with nice smells and special offers etc etc. But it doesn't work on me as I take cash and a shopping list :D.
Anyway, I'm Aspergers as well but I know that lots of NT people think about these things as well.

Bullet.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-07-04 10:40 am UTC (link)
I wonder if it's a cultural thing (live in the Netherlands)? When I went for birth control, the doctor was very thorough in making sure I knew 1) How my body worked, 2) how the pill would affect it to achieve the desired result (shorter, less painful periods with less bloodloss, and birth control as bonus, for me, I was not sexually active when I got it), 3) what it might do in ways of side effects, and verifying that I did not smoke and that there was no family with high bloodpressure or heart problems etc.

When I've gone to the doctor (different ones) for other problems, they've always answered all my questions in as much detail as I liked, and offered reasons why they thought it was this-or-that and not something else, and always explained why they prescribed this-or-that medication.

Or I could have just had enormous luck with doctors.

Norah

(Reply to this)

I found a real, live ObGyn who loves his job and gives service above and beyond
(Anonymous)
2008-07-06 05:40 am UTC (link)
I have been having problems with mental health for most of my life and had become accustomed to being patronised by medical and other health professionals when I found a psych who made time to hear me. Through him, I found a general practitioner who would listen. It has taken a long time, but we have been working through my physical health problems and he said the other day that I am usually right with my self-diagnosis and in my understanding of my meds and their interactions.

With his help, I now have a CPA machine to help me with sleep apnoea and hypopnoea. We are working on dealing with my kidney problems, and he referred me to a new ObGyn who LOVES his job (he said he loves it because 98% of his patients have a happy outcome, and he can make the unhappy endings less traumatic).

That was three weeks ago. Three days ago, I had an hysteroscopy with a D&C, removal of a polyp, and biopsy for precancerous hyperplasia. He inserted a Marena which is a birth control device that releases small quantities of progesterone to offset the unopposed Oestrogen from belly fat that I accumulated due to the psych meds. NOW, I have stopped bleeding (menorrhagia) and I have no pain except the occasional pinprick sensation.

Even though there is a possibility that I may have cancer and need to have a hysterectomy in the next few weeks, I feel GOOD.

The odds against finding three doctors who care enough and have enough time to listen are very high. But, I feel that I have won the lottery. I can only suggest that you keep buying tickets (keep on asking!)

BTW, NTs do want to know how things work and why they don't, but they either are bluffed or they manage to get answers by asking questions in a different manner than us. My shrink said that doctors are used to being deferred to and like to believe that they are the only ones able to ask the right questions ... they are not used to women who 1) do the research 2) know what they are talking about 3) won't put up with receiving fertiliser (bull**it) treatment 4) tell people about less than adequate service 5) persist in seeking solutions that work.

Take care.

Suzanne

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Trade secrets and the supermarket trade
[info]http://claimid.com/n8chz
2008-09-06 06:20 pm UTC (link)
My SO asks for information like that. She's definitely not neurotypical, but doesn't seem to be autistic, either. Librarians have always been society's firewall against proprietary information. May their profession manage to survive. I'm posting the present comment from a library, by the way, being a vagrant netizen ( http://tribes.tribe.net/netizen ) and all. The definition of non-compliance used by psychiatry is similar to that used by humyn resources. It never much bothered me that milk and bread are on opposite sides of the store. It bothers me greatly that different brands of bread are on opposite sides of the store. Bread marketed as natural or organic or something will typically be displayed in some corner of the store designated as health food, while main$tream bread brands will be with other main$tream brands. Likewise, one brand of canned garbanzo beans is with canned beans, while another is in the 'ethnic' aisle. If I ran a dupermarket (I read somewhere on the internets that in Canada they're called dupermarkets) the cereal aisle would look like a library. The boxes would be arranged like books, with side panels (the side featuring 'Nutrition Information') facing outward, and each box directly over its shelf tag. Except I wouldn't, because that would be breach of contract.

Shameless plug:

http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Pubwan

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: Trade secrets and the supermarket trade
[info]chaoticidealism
2008-09-06 09:20 pm UTC (link)
That would be SO useful, to have the nutritional information outwards. I really don't care about the art on the box... For best effect, the weight or volume should be on that side of the box too, so you could compare prices easily. Shops are rather glad to make things inconvenient for profit, of course.

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